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Progress Report December 2010
Scawen
Developer
News from www.lfs.net :

Dear LFS Racers,

We hope you have had a good year.

The stable Z28 has been the latest version for a long time now, while we have been working on things for the long term future of LFS. As many of you know, the tyre physics system is being updated so all the cars will behave that bit closer to reality. It has proved to be a challenging and unpredictable project, involving a lot of studying, mathematics, testing and rewriting.

Sometimes, we had a version that felt good to drive and it seemed that soon we would be able to release it to the community. But then we found situations where the simulation produced incorrect results, leading to further investigations into the way tyres perform in various circumstances and why they do so. One thing tends to lead to another and for a while it seems that the more you learn about tyres, the more you realise that there is so much more to find out!

Scawen has written a little more about tyre design and simulation in case you would like to get a bit more technical.

The VW Scirocco and Rockingham have seemed quite close to release for some time now, but we decided to wait for the updated tyres because these things from the real world will be best experienced with the most realistic physics system. Eric has been working on some more S3 content but he would like to get nearer to finishing before we show any new pictures.

Victor has recently produced a special program "LFS Record" which can help you to produce smooth movies from Live for Speed, using advanced camera control. It is still in a beta stage at the moment. The program has a lot of features - too much to describe here, so if you do make movies or would like to have a go, take a look at the LFS Record thread on our forum.

- LFS Developers
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Amynue :Why we can't see them in Z28 patch?

I don't know, you'd have to ask Eric.

As I said before, this thread is Tyre Physics Progress Report + Scirocco discussion.

If you are starting to think this is random question time for Scawen, please think again... maybe it's time to close the thread.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from cargame.nl :Maybe Scawen also finally learns that it's not the best idea to put TEXT MESSAGES in the middle OF THE SCREEN.. Blocking all view.

Why the sarcastic comment?

The tone of your comment suggests that you think I am really quite stupid. But maybe your comment is the thing that needs attention, because I really have no idea what you are talking about.

I am not aware of putting any text messages in the middle of the screen which block all view. That sounds like a very serious bug - maybe it should be in the bug reports section? Or maybe you are exaggerating and really you have noticed some text that could be in a better position? In which case you should be writing in the improvement suggestions. Post a screenshot as well so we know what you are talking about.

Either way, your comment is not about tyre physics or the Scirocco. Sarcastic posts like yours and scipy's are not welcome here. From the tone of your text, your intention is to annoy me. You are wasting my time. If you want to post here, stay on topic.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from rediske :See Scawen? ...didn't hurt at all. or did it...?

What counts is that you stopped by and said something...

I said something because I had something to say, not because I was forced to. I am quite immune to the moaning that goes on, it doesn't disturb me much at all - it's just what happens on forums. And there are many people here with a perfect understanding of what we are doing, and they do explain it to others round here sometimes.

For a long time there was nothing to say, with some half developed tyre physics and unfinished AI drivers. When I had something to say, I said it. Hope you understand, as many others do!

Quote from rc10racer :I don't think Eric's work rate is the issue because no one has a clue how fast he can make tracks/cars without him telling us, my opinion is that Eric has plenty of work that could be made public but the final decision ends with Scawen on what gets released.

It's up to Eric what of his work gets released, never have I tried to stop something of his being released!
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Amynue :Thanks Scawen for that post. Good to know that AI updates are already done and they are better than before. Sorry to ask but how is the VW stability control, suspension updates and limited setup system? If the tyre physics is the last thing to polish then it seems like we are getting close.

Those things are not done yet. I am not expecting them to be too difficult though. But where have I heard that before?

- I'm not planning to try and make the VW stability systems as refined or complete as the real thing. I tried something before, when we were apparently close to release at the end of 2008. Already learned something by taking some wrong turns at that point and I hope that it won't be too hard to get a couple of reasonable systems in place that enhance the handling.

- The suspension updates I hope won't be too difficult, though that is an area where one thing could lead to another, so I don't really know. I think it will be a case of "where to draw the line". It's doesn't need to be the final update to suspension systems but if I could get a bit of anti-dive and anti-squat working then it would help with the default car setups which are more softly sprung now.

- Limited setup system is just a whole bunch of logic programming, meaning it's a load of rules, nothing complicated like physics and geometry. So it shouldn't be too hard. But there will be a few things to sort out, like how it will work in the interface and deactivate an "extreme" setup when you join a "limited" setup host, and you'll need to specify if a setup you are working on should conform to "limited" or "extreme" setup rules.

After the updates are done and the beta testers are quite happy with it, I think there will be a decent period of public testing. The limited setup system should be quite interesting. Class balancing will also need to be sorted out, with new tyre physics and default setups on limited setup hosts, we'll probably find that some adjustments are needed. And of course, public testing will usually bring up other issues we can't think of yet.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Macfox :We're now at the point where the devs show a lot of contempt for those who question LFS progress.

I've just scanned through the last few pages of the thread. I haven't looked at the thread for a long time, as I've been working a lot recently.

I think you are not correct about the contempt. We're just improving this simulator. I'm trying to program the tyres to behave as realistic as possible. It takes a lot of investigation and testing.

The reason I don't make progress reports is not contempt. It just doesn't make any sense to me to do, say, monthly progress reports. One of them says "I'm working on the tyre physics" and then the next month "I'm still working on the tyre physics" and so on. I just want to say something when there is something interesting to say. But the tyre physics has been a lot of development, a lot of testing and trying new things, finding it did some things well and others not so well. Changing some things, looking for reference material to refine constants, taking a break, coming up with a new idea to test, trying it out, taking some wrong turns, investigating something that turned out impossible, rewriting something, finding a better result, and so on...

Maybe you would suggest that all those twists and turns along the journey of development is exactly what I should be writing in the weekly or monthly progress reports, but actually I don't want to. When I am following a line of investigation, I don't want to say what I am looking at, instead I just want to get on with it and see if it turns out right or wrong in the end. It's kind of a private activity, not sure how to explain that.

Quote from Macfox :The fact we've seen very little quantifiable evidence of progress for so long, is truly worrying. Sure the champions will hang around for whatever update materialises, but the damage to reputation and future prospects of LFS, will be a big hurdle to overcome if the old prosperous days are to return.

The statistics of this thread speak for themselves. The devs need to show some initiative and put LFS back on track otherwise they are just wasting their time pursuing a dream that will never meet reality.

I don't want to give any quantifiable evidence of progress at the moment. I suppose that would be a video or some graphs of tyre forces? No, I just want to get on with it. For example today I woke up with an idea to try which might have a subtle effect on the force outputs from tyres in some situations. It's a pleasing one because it can be coded in a few minutes and will be easily visible on the generated force graphs, unlike some things that take days to write. I don't want to say what it is, it's just something I'm looking into. Sorry to everyone who would like insight into every step of the tyre physics development but it's something I do for my own interest and to come up with really nice handling cars that our community will enjoy, and that's nice because it should give us more sales eventually as well. I'm not interested in doing something like writing a book on tyre physics development, if you see what I mean.

But what I can say is...

I think the tyre physics have come along a lot recently. There were some significant changes over quite a long time this year and when I found the handling was quite interesting and certain old issues were sorted, I started to look into the tyre heating, trying to get a version ready again for the testers. That meant sorting out the AI drivers, who only knew the old physics system. If they could drive well in the new tyre physics, they could drive consistent laps and so inform me if the tyre heating was working well.

The AI ended up being about three weeks of work, and I found it personally quite an interesting development time - which is good because that's what I'm here for! Anyway their grip prediction systems are a lot better and they can now drive quite close to the limit, the best and most reliable AI drivers yet seen in LFS. At some point I'd really like to work on their overtaking code, though that is not a high priority for this physics update patch.

So the AI could be crossed off that published list of big things to be done, and I feel the tyres are getting close. I've been testing them out with Eric and Victor for the last two weeks. They have been coming up with interesting comments and leading me to further investigations and improvements. I'm trying to get the version ready for our private beta testers to have a go. Also looking at notes I have here, specific comments from our testers, the last time they did some testing. I try to deal with each point then cross it off the list. No point giving them back a version that still has issues they mentioned before.

From experience I have learned that it's not worth giving the beta testers a version that I still know is flawed. While there is still plenty for me to work on full time, and Eric and Victor are pleased with what they see but are still able to demonstrate situations where they think the handling is not quite like reality, the best thing to do is just carry on. For how long, I don't know. Not everything goes as expected. Some things I try make strangely little or surprisingly large differences and sometimes they open up a new area of investigation. Personally I am surprised overall how much there has been to learn and understand about the behaviour of tyres.

Today I thought I'd just have a look at this thread, but there are too many new pages for me to read in detail. Anyway, you may be assured we have not stopped development. I guess if we stopped development then we'd make a post about it. I'm not sure how that would happen, maybe if I got run over or contracted a fatal illness or perhaps someone will come and offer me a flight to the moon but I have to train at NASA for a couple of years. Unlikely, and there's really nothing better I can do than work on this simulator. I just don't want to write about every step on the development path, so that's why there is a long time between progress reports.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
There is some misreading of my post going on. LFS development is not on the back burner, and I never said I don't like my work.

I said, I am working on the physics and I look forward to releasing it because of the excitement of it and I added that of course also it will be good for earnings!

To be entirely clear... since our "official" progress report we discovered bugs and further analysis showed other flaws in the tyre model. Further development of the tyre model and further analysis showed up more issues as well. This is that model which we think feels very nice to drive in most sutuations. I am not interested in "fudging" or "bodging" the tyre model and it takes time, research and thinking space to come to the right solutions.

Around Christmas and New Year, time spent with family and so on also causes some delays. I don't regret that.

My post was supposed to let you know what's going on, after dozens of people were complaining about a wall of silence, developers hiding under a rock and all that.

I hope you now have a better understanding of what I was saying. Some guys, please don't try to take the worst possible view of everything. Most people did understand!
Scawen
Developer
Hi there.

I'll "break the silence"... though I do think I said something quite recently.

There's really nothing to report, that's why we don't report anything. I've been continuing with the tyre physics. It's a mathematically based model as you know. That involves assumptions and simplifications to make it workable. During testing we found some extreme situations where the assumptions used caused a breakdown of the output forces. It turned out that the extreme situations can actually come up quite often. I don't really want to go into detail, I've been working on the model and studying the situations where things go wrong.

My work rate has not been very high these few months, I admit. For a while I seemed to fix something, it started to look good then on further investigation and analysis, another problem showed up. That kind of stumbling block caused me to take a break while I tried to get my head around it, to try another approach. The new approach might work or might not and I needed to think again. In those thinking times I didn't just sit here pushing myself until i came up with answers, instead I just sorted out other things unrelated to LFS. At this point in life in am not motivated to sort of sit there and pull my hair out and bang my head against a wall until the solution appears, I'd prefer to just do something else, running the problem over in my mind until I know what do do. That way I can make progress gradually without the frustration that can be experienced by someone who is stuck but needs to produce solutions in a given time.

It's not worth releasing a model with fatal flaws that make it worse than the current model in some situations, even though the on-track normal driving feel is better than the old tyre model.

Unfortunately the slow progress with the physics does delay the release of the Scirocco and Rockingham, but it can't really be helped. What I really want to do is get those improvements out there and then work on some more fun things I've been thinking about. You'll understand I can't comment on future things that may or may not happen, but there are things I want to do but can't until this hard stuff is out of the way.

About slow progress... some people comment how progress is so unbelievably and ridiculously slow... well I guess that means there must be a whole lot of sims out there that have overtaken LFS in nearly every way. If so, you can use them for a while, that's why we have an email notification when a patch is released. If people "leave" LFS that is fine. That kind of thing really can't be something I can get worried about. All I can do is work on the things I need to do, to get LFS to a level we are happy with, then release the updates. Sometimes that is delayed by obstacles as I described before, and sometimes by other things that come up in life generally. With two children and a house to look after, things that go wrong, guests that visit occasionally and that kind of thing, it's true that I don't do the same hours that I used to in the early days, when LFS was my hobby, my passion and my work all in one. Now it's more my work, I have other interests as well and there are now other things in life that are more important, but LFS is something I want to be proud of. Something that I want out there and being enjoyed.

Anyway, we have not died and we are not sipping cocktails on a tropical beach. Actually we are working on LFS. I'm developing the physics, Victor is keep things running, Eric is working on things too. We've done a load of work that we want to release, partly for the excitement of it, but we also have mortgages and other bills to pay and the releases will increase sales, so financially it would also be a great idea to get it out there!

Nothing else I can do do really, I'm just trying to get my current LFS projects finished and released. Threats of people "leaving" LFS, predictions of impending doom and so on don't really make any difference. I'm not about to release unfinished stuff and I will still get plently of sleep and relaxation time, and look after the other things I need to look after and develop LFS physics in whatever time it takes. Then we'll get there in the end and we'll send a notification email when the patch is ready, so you can all have a go on an improved LFS with more content.
Scawen
Developer
We'll give a progress report when there is something to report.

I'm working on it, that's what I said in the last progress report. That is still the case.

I've left the Tyre Physics Progress Report thread open http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=63604

That is the best place to make repeated and endless requests for further progress reports. I've unsubscribed from that thread so I don't keep hearing the same old thing, so I'd appreciate it if you'd just post over there instead of making new threads.

Thanks :up:
Scawen
Developer
Hi. Thanks for your interest in doing a Thai translation. I'm sorry but it is not yet supported by LFS.

If we did support it, it would use the Windows codepage as seen on this Microsoft web page :
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/goglobal/bb964654.aspx

But at the moment we do not support Hebrew, Arabic, Vietnam or Thai. In the case of Hebrew and Arabic there is an additional complication, that the writing needs to go from right to left. It looks like Thai does not have this complication so I would just need to implement the Thai codepage and characters into LFS to make it work.

I like to support languages and I find it interesting, but I can't do it until the highest priority things are done. At the moment that is the new tyre physics, VW Scirocco and Rockingham that everyone is waiting for. Maybe you could remind me again after those things are done?
Scawen
Developer
Quote from EQ Worry :Looking forward to a fix and maybe some other InSim/OutGauge additions.

I've done the fix and cleaned up the code in that area. So that will be in the next patch - I don't know when that will be.

I've made a note of your InSim improvement requests, along with other things I want to do. But those things are all a bit low priority compared with getting the physics out.

Quote from JPeace :sorry for bump.

but jpeace what?

Your name just came up in a log file posted above, it was an example of how a certain LFS bug could come up, which I have reproduced and fixed now. It seems that you probably caused this bug to appear by trying to join the race twice in quick succession (unintentionally). One way would be if you pressed SHIFT+J twice when you were in the ESC menu.
[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
Scawen
Developer
Hello LFS Racers,

As we said in our news item on 21st August, we have been working on a new tyre physics model. It has a good mathematical basis for the forces a tyre produces under varying circumstances and does feel good to drive, so we are very pleased with the new model. The new physics and plans for the VW Scirocco have inspired some other developments that are now important to get the best experience from the updates.

Most of the remaining development is in the following sections :

- Tyre heating and cooling
- AI driver improvements
- Limited setup system
- Suspension updates
- VW stability control

We'll now talk a little about these things, and some of our plans. Please be aware that these are just plans as we see them now. Plans can change, and they often do, so it is very likely that some things you read below will be different from the final result.

Tyre heating and cooling

As the tyre model is completely different, both in the contact patch (frictional effects) and also the way the tyre reacts to loads (deflection depending on air pressure and sidewall stiffness) the old tyre heating system no longer worked properly. So we have been trying new things, with some success, but at this time there are still noticeable issues that need to be sorted out. We found it impossible to simply use the old heating model with some adjusted figures as we had hoped. Some more real updates are needed to get the heating and cooling of tyres right.

AI driver improvements

Just recently we discovered that the AI were driving around too slowly because they were underestimating the available grip. But because available grip depends on tyre load in a non-linear way, it turns out that some of the programming for the AI drivers needs a little reorganising. Many community members like to drive with AI in single player mode, so it is important for them to drive at a good speed.

Limited setup system

We mentioned before that the VW Scirocco would be our first car with a limited setup. But as time went by, that plan changed a little. We realised that limited setups would be a popular option for online hosts. It is a feature that has often been requested. It would allow people to race in road cars that feel like road cars (not stiffened and lowered) and still be competitive. So we decided the limited setups should be an option that applies to many of the LFS cars. For example, in limited setup mode, the standard road cars would only allow tyre pressure and toe adjustments. The LX6 / RAC / FZ5 class (LRF) would also allow compression and rebound damping to be adjusted along with ride height and adjustable anti roll bars (in some cases). The idea is to allow the same adjustments you could make on the real car without changing any parts.

Suspension updates

In order to implement the limited setup system, we needed some good standard setups, the kind that these cars would have in real life. In comparison with most LFS setups currently in use, the new default road car setups are a lot softer. Our testers noticed that with the new setups some cars can be a bit tricky at times, for example when adjusting the accelerator while cornering or when braking into corners. In real life, the suspension geometry is designed to produce an anti-dive effect under braking and anti-squat under acceleration. This has until now been absent from the LFS suspension systems, but now looks like an important development to support the realistic setups.

VW stability control

The special traction control and stability control systems for the VW Scirocco still need to be completed. We don't intend to make this as complex and refined as the real VW systems. We do want to recreate some of the beneficial effects of those systems that can apply individual wheel brakes to help the car go where the driver wants it to, when things begin to get out of shape.

We hope this progress report gives some insight into what has been going on. As you can see there are still important things to be completed. It's hard to know how long the tyre heat and suspension updates will take, so we are still not able to estimate a release date.

A reminder :
- The new physics will be a free update for all LFS users
- The VW Scirocco will be available to S1 and S2 license holders
Live for Speed S2, version Z28
Scawen
Developer
Hello LFS Racers.

We have released a new, full version with an installer and a some updates : Z28

It is compatible with version Z, so does not contain the new tyre physics or the VW Scirocco. The main reason for this new version is that LFS really needed an installer. This will make it a lot easier for new users to install LFS, and there are also benefits for existing users.

The installer gives you a default folder of C:\LFS but you can choose wherever you like. Vista and Windows 7 users should preferably not use their Program Files folder because of some issues that come up.

The installer is very non-intrusive, it just extracts LFS into the specified folder and adds an icon to your desktop (if you wish) and a start menu item (if you wish). Also optional is an automatic setup of file associations for SPR / MPR / LYT and SET files.

One thing many of our users liked about the self extracting archives is that they wrote no information at all to the Windows registry. Our installer does make at least one entry to the registry, to allow the uninstaller to work. Also the optional file associations are registry entries. You can recreate an old-style install, with absolutely nothing added to the registry and no shortcuts by following these two steps :

1) Install LFS (you can disable all file associations and shortcuts during the install)
2) Uninstall LFS - you'll see an option that allows you to leave the LFS folder in place. All registry entries and shortcuts will be removed.


Also new is updated support for the URL lfs:// which can be used to start LFS using a command line from a web page. This is the new method for "Join" links at www.lfsworld.net and from the forum. Previously a special program needed to be installed but now the links will work for any copy of LFS installed using the installer.


NOTE : You will need to unlock after installing Z28!

This is because of a fix for some hibernating computers losing their unlock.
We have reset everyone's available unlocks to three (as if you had bought a new license).


Changes from Z25 to Z28 :

Reduced minimum view height in SHIFT+U mode
Reduced minimum speed in SHIFT+U mode to 0.1 m/s
Multiple host passwords are now stored (Join Specific Host screen)
Added support for lfs:// (start LFS with command line from web page)
FIX : Could not join S1 or S2 host after unlocking in Multiplayer screen
FIX : Clicking SPR / MPR did not work with "Load track when starting"
FIX : Two or more dedicated hosts could be started with same port
FIX : It was possible to reset the car while a vote was in progress
FIX : Help buttons sometimes translated after returning to English


Three ways to get Patch Z28 :

1) AUTO UPDATER - If you already have version V, W, X, Y or Z :

- Click on "Multiplayer" then "List of Games" in LFS and choose a download mirror.

2) MANUAL PATCH (2.3 MB) - If you already have version Z25 :

- Click HERE and save the patch installer.
- You can run the patch installer from its download location or from your LFS folder.

3) FULL VERSION (134 MB) - If you are new to LFS or making a fresh installation.

- Click HERE to visit the download page and get the full version installer.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Byku :Although it is offtopic... sorry... Scawen, it's great that You are implementing limited setup options, but remember those unlimited setup options in LFS were also it's strength. There is huge userbase which simply loves to play with LFS setups(just look at setup subforum). I might ask too much(and i will understand that) but... two "cards" of setup options would be nice, with possibility to enforce "basic" or "advance(with maybe even more setup options than now?)" setup on a particular server(Iracing style). I am personally such a person, who loves the possibilities in LFS setups(and how I can feel every change). Thanks to LFS i've learned a lot about differencials, supsension etc. Of course I accept every change You will make, but remember , You've made awesome physics engine... don't take from some of us the possibility to play with it .

Yes, I know there are a lot of users that have used LFS for experimentation and learned something from the unlimited setups. And we will not take away that ability. The idea is that it will be a host option. Maybe the default will be limited setups and the option will be "Allow extreme setups" or maybe the other way round.

Anyway the important thing is there will be hosts you can join with limited setups. For most road cars that would be very limited (like : tyre pressure and toe). For LRF cars there would be some extra adjustments (like damping and anti-roll bars). Racing cars would allow a lot more adjustments. Other hosts would allow extreme setups. Possibly the extreme setups could one day go further than they do now.

Quote from ponczak :That's nice, but please, remember of drifters and just try to give XRT, FZ5 and maybe XRG some settings helpful in drifting, like camber, parallel steer, toe, and of course - differential. That will be a big gift from you.

Drifting hosts are one example where extreme setups will be allowed, I am sure.

Quote from ponczak :I have a little question also - now, when I have hot tires (I mean after the big burnout or few drifting laps) I have a lot of smoke on straights (without any sliding) - just because tires are hot. In new physics this isn't exist? Am I right?

You are pointing out an issue with tyre heating / cooling that exists in the old physics and is not yet cured in the new physics. I found it was impossible to change a few numbers and fix that - I need to improve the tyre surface and rubber heating model.

Another thing that affects progress is the AI drivers. I found out last week that they are unable to estimate the available grip correctly. Once again I found that a "quick fix" was inappropriate and would be a waste of time. I really need to do some reorganising of their code again, would be a few days work. Obviously many people would say, forget the AI drivers, they are no consequence. But from our point of view, the AI must be able to handle their physics and we cannot release LFS versions with that kind of problem. Many people don't use AI at all, but others do use them. That is an example of something unforeseen just popping up.

Quote from pako_customize :is it possible in z30 contain new physics ?

I have no idea what patch numbers will contain what updates in the future. The plan is to release Z28 today and then I get back to work on the physics.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from pearcy_2k7 :I don't really understand how it can have quite a way to go, had like a year on it, released it to the beta testers who said it was an improvement, so it obviously works and if there were problems from their side you've had months to change it

Sorry to go off-topic but it kinda sucks to be left in the dark about everything...

Well, programming new physics is really hard. The tyre model feels good and has a good mathematical basis. But as it's completely different, the tyre heating needs to be done differently too. It simply doesn't work any more like it did. Also things like that little puff of smoke that comes out from a hot piece of tyre each time it hits the road - that has no place in the new LFS physics. In fact, I recently added code that can emit smoke from all hot parts of a tyre (regardless of whether they are touching the road or not). It's quite nice and convincing in some situations but persists for too long in other situations and itself proves that the heating model is not yet right.

Also we are interested in implementing a limited setup system (for road cars - not just the VW) and have realistic setups for all the road cars. But these realistic setups have demonstrated something that is lacking in the suspension.

As with all things in development, one thing is leading to another, and when one thing leads to another, you should do "another". Or at least, that's how I choose to work. The current LFS is already quite balanced. To release something that has not reached the required standard, is not balanced, is clearly wrong (as a whole) and so on, would not do LFS any good at all. Real time simulation of the heating of tyres is not something I could complete in 3 days or a week. I did think I could, but in attempting it, and trying some different approaches, I found I could not. So all I can do is carry on, until the tyre heating is right, update the suspension as required, then implement the limited setup system which will allow you to drive road cars that feel like road cars. Rushing things out would make LFS worse for you, not better.

This is really just a short note, I think this would be better stated in a proper progress report. And that was the plan. But as you and maybe others can't wait, and it is the test patch itself that is causing you to be upset, I hope it was worth explaining the situation. As usual, there is a reason for everything, we have not lost our heads or anything like that.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Zay :Sorry guys, for jinxing this, but I have a really, really good feeling...

I have a good feeling too. And that is - we'll soon have an installer.

But I really need to make it clear the physics has quite a way to go. Just in case that's what you were thinking.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Tomba(FIN) :You said you stop working with the test patches and will work on the new physics etc

Yes, that's what I did, for some weeks I worked on the new physics, just as I said.

Victor pointed out the need for an installer and I agree, it's very important for LFS. He also does technical support so knows better than anyone the problems that come up.

I don't think Victor or I realised quite the little journey it would take us on, but I'm very pleased with the result and think it was well worth a few days off the physics, to help inlclude the URL association and fix the other Z25 issues.
Test Patch Z28 (installer test + minor updates)
Scawen
Developer
WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW PHYSICS / VW SCIROCCO / ROCKINGHAM

Hello Racers, here is a new Test Patch : Z28. It is fully compatible with version Z25.

Please keep a backup of your LFS.exe from version Z25 so you can go back to Z25 if there are any problems.

This is mainly about the new installer which Victor has been working on. It will be very helpful for new users, who often had problems with the self-extracting archives we used until now and sometimes installed LFS into the wrong place.

Thank you translators, for making and updating the new installer translations.

The installer gives you a default folder of C:\LFS but you can choose wherever you like. Vista and Windows 7 users should preferably not use their Program Files folder because of some issues that come up.

The installer is very non-intrusive, it just does a normal LFS install and adds an icon to your desktop (if you wish) and a start menu item (if you wish). Also optional is an auto setup of file associations for SPR / MPR / LYT and SET files. There is always at least one entry made to the registry, to allow the uninstaller to work. If you want to recreate an old-style install, with nothing added to the registry and no shortcuts you can follow the following steps :

1) Install LFS (you can disable file associations and shortcuts during the install if you like)
2) Uninstall LFS - you'll see an option that allows you to leave the LFS folder in place. All registry entries and shortcuts will be removed.


Also new is updated support for the URL lfs:// which can be used to start LFS using a command line from a web page. This is the new method for "LFS Join" links at www.lfsworld.net and from the forum. Previously a special program needed to be installed but now the links will work for any copy of LFS installed using the installer.

You can test the full version installer, or you can use the Z25 to Z28 patch installer. This will require you to select your existing LFS folder.


IMPORTANT NOTE : You will need to unlock after installing Z28!

This is because of a fix for hibernating computers losing their unlock.
We have made sure you have some unlocks spare.
You do not need to unlock again if you already unlocked with Z27.


Changes in Z28 :

Reduced minimum speed in SHIFT+U mode to 0.1 m/s
FIX : Could not join S1 or S2 host after unlocking in Multiplayer screen
FIX : Multiple host passwords are now stored for local network ip / port


Changes from Z25 to Z27 :

Various updates to translations
Reduced minimum view height in SHIFT+U mode
Added support for lfs:// start LFS with command line from web page
Multiple host passwords are now stored (Join Specific Host screen)
FIX : It was possible to reset the car while a vote was in progress
FIX : Clicking SPR / MPR did not work if "Load track when starting"
FIX : Help buttons sometimes translated after returning to English
FIX : Two or more dedicated hosts could be started with same port


DOWNLOADS :

PATCH Z25 to Z28 (installer) (Z25 must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs. ... ATCH_Z25_TO_Z28_setup.exe (2.3 MB)

FULL VERSION Z28 (installer) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_Z28_setup.exe (134 MB)

DEDICATED HOST Z28 (non-graphical version for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_Z28.zip (1.6 MB)
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from aroX123 :I think you are finish, but your just cleaning tiny bugs before releasing it, thats my thinking..

You are wrong - there is still a significant amount to do on physics.
One thing is leading to another as usual... and good things are lined up.
But I am not going to talk about that on the test patch thread.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from morpha :Are you sure you included the correct files with Z27? Because the animation still looks like it's for a smaller wheel

Quote from Ger Roady :Maybe Scawen didn't saw your post, or the "changed" animations are not visible with any Z-Patch

OK I've found out what's going wrong. The "old" RA in in the public version uses the lx animations.

The "new" RA with a new setup for the new physics uses its own animations.

So those animations I included have no effect at all. Sorry for the confusion.

It's not an easy change to make because the driver sits higher in the new version as well. For now we just need to delete the animations from the patch.
Test Patch Z27 (installer test + minor updates)
Scawen
Developer
WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW PHYSICS / VW SCIROCCO / ROCKINGHAM

Hello Racers, here is a new Test Patch : Z27. It is fully compatible with version Z25.

Please keep a backup of your LFS.exe from version Z25 so you can go back to Z25 if there are any problems.

This is mainly about the new installer which Victor has been working on.

Thank you translators, for making and updating the new installer translations.

The installer gives you a default folder of C:\LFS but you can choose wherever you like. Vista and Windows 7 users should preferably not use their Program Files folder because of some issues that come up.

The installer is very non-intrusive, it just does a normal LFS install and adds an icon to your desktop (if you wish) and a start menu item (if you wish). Also optional is an auto setup of file associations for SPR / MPR / LYT and SET files. This will be very helpful for new LFS users who can sometimes install LFS in the wrong place using the old self-extracting archives.

Also new is updated support for the URL lfs:// which can be used to start LFS using a command line from a web page. This will soon be the new method for "LFS Join" links at www.lfsworld.net and from the forum. Previously a special program needed to be installed but soon the links will work for any copy of LFS installed using the installer.

You can test the full version installer, or you can use the Z25 to Z27 patch installer. This will require you to select your existing LFS folder.


IMPORTANT NOTE 1 : LFS World is not updated - "LFS Join" links do not yet work with this!

You can test anyway by visiting this temporary web page after installing Z27 : http://www.lfsworld.net/hostjointest.php


IMPORTANT NOTE 2 : You will need to unlock after installing Z27!

This is because of a fix for hibernating computers losing their unlock. We have made sure you have some unlocks spare.


Changes from Z26 to Z27 :

Reduced minimum view height in SHIFT+U mode
Improved reading of host names and passwords from command line
Multiple host passwords are now stored (Join Specific Host screen)


Changes from Z25 to Z26 :

Added support for lfs:// start LFS with command line from web page
Various translation updates

FIX : It was possible to reset the car while a vote was in progress
FIX : Clicking SPR / MPR did not work if "Load track when starting"
FIX : Help buttons sometimes translated after returning to English
FIX : Two or more dedicated hosts could be started with same port


DOWNLOADS :

PATCH Z25 to Z27 (installer) (Z25 must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs. ... ATCH_Z25_TO_Z27_setup.exe (2.3 MB)

FULL VERSION Z27 (installer) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_Z27_setup.exe (138 MB)

DEDICATED HOST Z27 (non-graphical version for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_Z27.zip (1.6 MB)
Test Patch Z26 (installer test + minor updates)
Scawen
Developer
WARNING : THIS IS A TEST

NOTE : THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW PHYSICS / VW SCIROCCO / ROCKINGHAM

Hello Racers, here is a new Test Patch : Z26. It is fully compatible with version Z25.

Please keep a backup of your LFS.exe from version Z25 so you can go back to Z25 if there are any problems.

This is mainly about the new installer which Victor has been working on.

Thank you translators, for making the new installer translations.

The installer gives you a default folder of C:\LFS but you can choose wherever you like. Vista and Windows 7 users should preferably not use their Program Files folder because of some issues that come up.

The installer is very non-intrusive, it just does a normal LFS install and adds an icon to your desktop (if you wish) and a start menu item (if you wish). Also optional is an auto setup of file associations for SPR / MPR / LYT and SET files. This will be very helpful for new LFS users who can sometimes install LFS in the wrong place using the old self-extracting archives.

Also new is updated support for the URL lfs:// which can be used to start LFS using a command line from a web page. This will be the new method for "LFS Join" links at www.lfsworld.net Previously a special program needed to be installed but soon the "join" links will work for any copy of LFS installed using the installer.

LFS World is not yet updated to the new system. You can test anyway by visiting this temporary web page after installing Z26.
http://www.lfsworld.net/hostjointest.php

You can test the full version installer, or you can use the Z25 to Z26 patch. This will require you to select your existing LFS folder.


Changes from Z25 to Z26 :

Added support for lfs:// start LFS with command line from web page
Various translation updates

FIX : It was possible to reset the car while a vote was in progress
FIX : Clicking SPR / MPR did not work if "Load track when starting"
FIX : Help buttons sometimes translated after returning to English
FIX : Two or more dedicated hosts could be started with same port


DOWNLOADS :

PATCH Z25 to Z26 (Z25 must already be installed) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs. ... ATCH_Z25_TO_Z26_setup.exe (1.9 MB)

FULL VERSION Z26
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_Z26_setup.exe (137 MB)

DEDICATED HOST Z26 (non-graphical version for hosting only) :
www.liveforspeed.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_DEDI_Z26.zip (1.6 MB)
Last edited by Scawen, .
No test patch available (since Z25)
Scawen
Developer
There is no test patch available, since the Z25 official release.

Development continues on the tyre physics, which we are trying to get to you as soon as possible.

We intend to test the tyre physics in a test patch before the full version is released.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from HeerBommel :problems !!!!

I have to unlock my LFS for the third time on the same computer this week.
How is this possible ??????

Do you use hibernation? On some computers, for some unknown reason, hibernating can change an ID that LFS uses for its unlock storage.

If that is the problem, the solution is :

1) Restart your computer
2) Unlock LFS
3) Use your computer and LFS as normal
4) If you find that your unlock has disappeared (possibly after hibernating) then exit LFS and restart your computer. Now when you run LFS your user name and password should reappear, with no need to unlock again.

Quote from Warper :Scawen, i am curious, what do you mean by keeping the ESP simple? I am a little afraid that the esp algorithms are kind of sophisticated...

I would appreciate some input.

Thanks,
Steffen

If I try to make the ESP as complicated and as good as the real thing, maybe I'd be on the case for a year. Maybe I'd need to hire a team of engineers and employ them for a few years - obviously not possible. On the other hand if I try to keep it simple then I hope to release the VWS in a reasonable time. I'm thinking, do something that helps stability and traction, using the ability to apply individual wheel brakes. Hope you see what I mean. It's not really something I want to discuss in detail. I'm on the physics, then I want to sort out something for the VWS, more appropriate than LFS's current traction control system, then release it.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Liquid Li0n :Scawen, about the multiscreen support...is this already up to final because I'm keep getting errors or crashes when trying to get it working on 3 screens.
I'm on Win 7 and have the latest nividia drivers+softTH 3rd party application.

It would be great if multiscreensupport would work for this game.

At this point I don't have plans to make any changes, I think we got all the bugs out. My focus now is getting the tyre physics to a releasable condition.

SoftTH is very good and clever software, but from what I hear it is not perfectly stable, so I think you need to set it up right and not try to make it do what it can't do. I don't know any more than that - you'd probably be better off talking to SoftTH users. If there is a crash or problem caused by LFS then of course I will look into it.

Quote from SamH :The closest I can get is "skaw'n". I said it wrong for ages, but I blame that on my friend in Scotland who's called "Scowan". For me, it's a fairly safe bet that "Scawen" (especially "Roberts") is a Scottish name

Sam is closest. I say it in a way that nearly rhymes with "Shaun". I don't know if it is Scottish or not, normally I say it is Cornish.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG